|This photo of David Koresh and Clive Doyle appears in A Place Called Waco (Thibodeau and Whiteson, PublicAffairs, 1999, p. 174-5). The origin of this photo is in doubt.||
April 19, 2001--Four and a half years ago, in October 1996 a man living in Philadelphia made a decision to start a new life and devote himself to finding God. He left all that was familiar behind including his friends, a comfortable home, a big library, and even his old name. His trip took him to Waco, Texas, to seek out Clive Doyle, the man reputed to be David Koresh's disciple.
But after three and a half years of intensive study, this man, who now calls himself Andrew X98, has come to the conclusion that:
"Clive says he is not the leader of the Branch Davidians. True. Clive is the substitute leader -- the government murdered the real leader and gave us Clive in his place. Clive is the cuckoo's egg, an impostor. He is a key player in the cover-up of the Waco Holocaust."
Tell us a little about yourself ...
[You can read about the Cover-up Church at: http://public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/doc/x98_rev.html ]
I live on a small monthly Social Security allowance. Until I was disabled in June 1996 in a motorcycle accident, I was a professional carpet installer. For 15 years I worked as a union member, but in 1985 I started my own business of repair and inspection of existing installations. My ancestors were coal miners in Pennsylvania but I grew up in the city, in Philadelphia. I have a high school diploma and spent a few years studying comparative religion at Temple University. For years I was an intravenous drug user and have spent time in prison on drug-related offenses. I contracted AIDS eleven years ago as a result of my drug use, so I have had bouts of illness.
I came to believe that there must be a God in this world that could forgive me and help me to understand why my life had been filled with such pain and suffering. My life is not a pretty story, but I made a decision to transmute the darkness of my life into light. Now I am "The Watchman" of Mt.Carmel and the protector of the memory of the Martyrs. In this holy war, this Jihad, I have three weapons: my mouth, my hand and my heart.
To be the watchman of something is an important job, but it carries
grater significance when it is the ruins of a church where nearly a hundred
people were tortured, mutilated and burnt to death. My
Your readers should know that when I first went down to Waco I regarded Clive as my spiritual mentor and I bared my soul to him. Perhaps he will go public with his knowledge after this interview is published in an attempt to discredit me, but I don't care. I think the truth about what Clive Doyle is doing in the present is much more important than the truth about what I have done in the past.
There is something else that is important for you to know about me: I am a Shiite Muslim. I believe in the unseen world. I do not think life is solely made up of the physical and the sensory. I believe in the spiritual universe. Those who would control the world also believe in the power of the unseen. They believe in the power of Satan and use symbols and signs to call up this Satanic power. Many people are blind to this. I am not. I look at symbols and study symbolism.
I arrived at the Mt. Carmel Center on December 2, 1996. One of the first questions I asked was whether David Koresh believed he was God. Clive told me David never made this claim, and that neither he nor any of the Davidians believed David was God. Rather they believed David was chosen by God not only to be a prophet but to fulfill prophecy. This was important to me. Had they believed David Koresh was God Himself I would have been off in a hurry. God is all knowing and present everywhere, but David, as a human, was not.
In those early days, I'd go to Clive's house on Old Mexia Road every Wednesday night to study the Bible with him. Occasionally other people would come by and join us but mostly it was just Clive and me. A few months later another student, Peter Wagstaff, came all the way from England to join us.
On Saturdays I attended Sabbath meetings with other Davidians. Usually the meetings were held in the private homes of the Davidians. Often it was Sheila Martin's home, sometimes Ophelia Santoyo's, sometimes Catherine Matteson's.
By the way, let's get our terms defined. Clive says he is not the leader of the Branch Davidians. Well, he sure is not the leader of those who followed David Koresh. But Clive walks and talks and quacks like he's the leader. The media calls upon Clive as the spokesman, and he answers. Clive controls the purse and the minds of his followers and he makes the decisions. "I've got control, just don't call me the leader." OK. I'll oblige Clive. I won't call him the leader, I'll call him the substitute leader. The government murdered the real leader of the Branch Davidians and gave us Clive in his place. Clive is the cuckoo's egg in the Branch Davidian nest.
The history of the Davidians and this property begin with Florence Houteff, the widow of Victor Houteff who founded the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists. Florence bought 914 acres of this land in 1955. In 1959 there were at least 1,000 people living in her Mt. Carmel Center. Florence put in a sewer system -- the Davidians relied for water on the same artesian well used by the Tawakonis. You can see the remnants of that system today.
In 1962, Florence Houteff sold off much of the property and went to California. From the middle of the 914 acres, she carved out 77.86 acres, and left the reduced Mt. Carmel Center with 12 sides! Just as new Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven has12 gates (Revelation 21:12), so the Mt. Carmel Center after Florence had 12 sides.
I challenge anybody to show me a property with 12 sides. I have researched property all over the US and haven't found anything like this. Remember, this 12 sided property was carved out of the middle of 914 acres. I think Florence did it that way purposefully for some mystical reason, possibly Masonic. Did you know that the Mt. Carmel Center is on the "Double Eagle" Ranch Road? The Double Eagle is one of the primary symbols of the 33rd degree Masons.
After Florence, Ben Roden, and then Lois Roden, came to power. When Ben died, the Rodens' son, George, became his mother's rival. Eventually Lois declared David Koresh, not George, to be a prophet of God. This resulted in a split in the group. George Roden took control of the land at the Mt. Carmel Center and in 1984, with the help of the sheriff's department, forced David Koresh and his followers out. David and his people went to live in Palestine, Texas. George Roden eventually was sent to jail for a few months for contempt of court. With George temporarily out of the picture, David Koresh paid off the back taxes owing on the Mt. Carmel Center and moved his people back in. I understand a court order stipulated that if David Koresh maintained control of the property for five years, he would own that land, but I was never able to find the court order. As I said, the history is more complex than that, but this will give you a necessary overview.
Bottom line: What I found was that no one, officially, owns that property. Eventually Clive and I met with McLennan County sheriff's deputy Terry Fuller to present my findings.
Besides doing this research, I performed many confidential secretarial tasks for Clive Doyle.
The vote and the appointment were documented, and I sent copies to the McLennan County sheriff's department and the Davidian prisoners. I tried to do things right.
When I first moved onto the Mt. Carmel Center property, I lived in my van. Later I lived in a trailer provided by David Koresh's mother, Bonnie Haldeman. I was at the Mt. Carmel Center day and night. I greeted visitors, friendly and unfriendly, whatever time they came. I insisted all behave respectfully. If a visitor could not be respectful towards the martyrs who died on the hallowed ground beneath their feet, I asked them to leave.
Eventually Clive purchased a trailer and moved onto the Mt. Carmel Center property himself, and I moved into a rental farm house on Old Mexia Road Clive had been living in.
When I was not living on the property, I was there anyway, much of the time, guarding it. I was present one Halloween night when some students from Baylor University in Waco came up to the Mt. Carmel Center, all dressed up in Halloween costumes. They were looking for some fun, some 15 of them -- four carloads. I told them they were behaving strangely for Christians -- all dressed up for a pagan festival, treading on ground that ran red with the blood of those who had been martyred for their beliefs, ground that ran red with the blood of innocent women and children. They apologized and left.
So on an off, I lived on the Mt. Carmel Center for years. Naturally I saw Clive every day during those times. We had many intense discussions of the Bible.
In September 1999, I denounced Clive for founding the new chapel on the Sabbath. Naturally I was persona non grata after that. I continued to live in Waco until July 2000, when illness forced me to leave to seek medical attention. I went back to Philadelphia briefly, but for next nine months I was under medical care in northern Virginia. I returned to Waco on April 1, 2001.
When did you give yourself a new name?
"X" of course is an old symbol for Christ, the first letter of the Greek word "Christos." The red X has been used to symbolize the blood of Christ. It can be seen in the flag of Ireland.
Now, the flag with the red X that appeared on the tank: I've been told that this flag is the Alabama state flag, and the tank flying the flag was from the Alabama National Guard. This explanation does not quite make sense. The tank flying the flag was on federal duty, not Alabama duty. And the flag flew in Texas, where Alabama had no jurisdiction. Besides, Texas has all the hardware it would ever need without borrowing from Alabama.
As for the flag with the black X: I have been offered no explanation for that flag. It seems to have no history. The experts I've talked to don't know what to make of it.
But I think we can make sense of it, interpreting the symbols as we already know them. X is a symbol of Christ. Black is a symbol for evil. White is a symbol for good.
This black X on a white background is a flag of the anti-Christ. It symbolizes the triumph of darkness over light, of evil over good.
So I chose to oppose that symbol. I did this by adopting the white X on a black background as my own moniker. That symbolizes the triumph of good over evil.
By the way, at the first showing of "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" on April 18, I asked Michael McNulty about the flag with the black X. He said: "The black X meant the 10th tank battalion or something, but I really don't know. " I thought that was strange. Here we had a guy that was supposed to be making a documentary using visual material and he treats the most outstanding visual effect at the height of the fire so casually. He "sorta knows, but not really." I was convinced that McNulty was a fraud from that point on.
When I questioned Clive about McNulty's ignorance, Clive said he did not trust McNulty either, but then offered the conventional justification for accepting McNulty's lies: McNulty's videos were not perfect, but they were the best we have.
That's not true of course. Linda Thompson's videos were the best we have. They were full of truths. McNulty's videos are the replacements for them, and his are full of lies.
I noticed that number, because the "86" is slang term that means "kill," or "murder." If you have been 86'd, you have been killed or murdered. By the way, that is why the abortion drug is called RU486. The name of the drug asks a question of the public: "Are you for murdering children?"
Later, of course, I found out the number of Davidians who died was not 86. "Eighty-six dead at Waco" had obviously been a signal that the Davidians had been murdered or 86ed. I of course wished to oppose the murders. So I reversed the 86 symbol. The reverse of 86 is 98. Thus "98" is part of my name.
Clive not living at the Mt. Carmel Center is a big deal. Devout Branch Davidians desire to be "present," listening to the prophet as he unfolds his prophecies. This truth, heard from the prophet's mouth, is called the "present truth." Ellen G. White, Victor Houteff, Ben Roden, and David Koresh all believed that it was vitally important to witness the "present truth." David went all over the world telling people they had to be there in Waco to hear his revelations as they were happening. The fact that Doyle lived away from the property for years and is now being served up as a Koresh disciple does not ring true.
Copyright, April 19, 2001 -- May be reproduced for non-commercial purposes
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Many people who distrust the mainstream media have turned to alternate news sources, some of which are Internet based. Unfortunately, many of these alternate sources of news simply promote an alternate series of lies. These alternate lies are of course dressed up as "exposés." But you can easily tell the phonies from the real thing. The information in the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum is an acid test.
Does your news source promote Mike McNulty's video, Waco: The Rules of Engagement or wring its hands because the Davidian law suit against the government failed? (See Waco Documentary Is A Hoax! and Waco Suits for Waco Suckers.) Does your alternate news source carry promotional pieces about rebuilding the Davidian church in Waco and mouth nice words about "healing"? (See The Cover-up Church.)
Remember, since ancient times, inquiries into questionable deaths have started with the bodies of the victims. If your news source won't give you an honest and full account of the forensic information on Waco, or if it does not have a link to the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum ... your alternate news has failed a fundamental acid test.